Michael Jackson & Farrah Fawcett are dead

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Kira Scurro		#201	[-]
Posts: 4357 (Jul 4, 2009 2:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	whether it was welcome convo or not, desi, it's how i feel about the situation. and, once again, i didn't say more than, i said as much. why people here would get so up-in-arms about my feelings about 2 men with whom i feel closer to as a black woman than they possibly could, is beyond me. only i know how i feel about this situation and i have a right to say it. that, in this period of mourning, it would be such a great point of contention among people who claim to be prejudice-free, only validates how little we still know and understand about each other in this country. compare this to my confronting someone about their beliefs on the holocaust, despite what i know from history and all the news. if they were of jewish descent or had family who had been involved in some way, i would have to concede to their intuitive knowledge. they experienced it much more closely, and painfully, than i ever could. i just came across this dynamic post on an opinion article in the la times. this woman really hits the nail on the head. she said it much better than i ever could. it makes you think... After 40 years of constant sexist misandrist feminist hate propaganda, men are seen as evil and people are suspicious when men are near young children. Poor Michael was the VICTIM of massive hysteria and Misandrist FEAR that is promoted by the sexist feminists on a daily basis in the media. Poor Michael did not get to raise the VICTIM card because it is exclusive to girls and only girls who exploit it frequently. The gender-biased sexist laws do not recognize that men can be victims. Poor Michael. Posted by: sarah \| July 04, 2009 at 09:02 AM whoa... (edit to with lindy)
heatmiserfl		#202	[-]
Posts: 3324 (Jul 4, 2009 2:09 PM) Lurker - F*CK YEAH! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, I just realized what my problem is with this discussion. I must be a history uber and I think, Kira, you are still missing my point. I get the point of your feelings and emotions. My point is that if you want to pick artists who really provided those emotions at key points in history, it makes no sense to me to pick ones that gave you the warm fuzzies way after the crucial times. So, the problem is the timelines and communication. Regarding communication, when we talk about civil rights movement, we're talking about a specific time in history. When I mention peace movement, I'm talking about anti-Vietnam war. You keep talking about feelings "at the time" but it's buggingme because you couldn't be having those feelings "at certain times". For example, I too love "Imagine" (funny you mentioned that because its my favorite song, it gives me the warm fuzzies_. But, this is important, "Imagine" could not have done more for the peace movement (I'm talking Vietnam here!). Why? Because it came after public opinion was against Vietnam. See what I mean? Nixon and Kennedy ran on "getting out of Vietnam" platforms in 1968 because the tide of opinion was already turning. Johnson did not seek re-election in '68 because he knew he was losing support and I think he hated the war too. "Imagine" came out 3-4 years later. Likewise, Billy Jean came out 20 years after the Civil Rights Act and 40 years of serious struggle. Now, if someone wants to challenge my historical time line compulsion, I admit, I have no defense, other than I'm just wired that way. Now if you want to get all ageless and timeless and say that Imagine has done more for peace, in general...nope, can't agree with that one either. desicrowefan wrote: I don't see why its such a deal that Vlf is defending Kira having an opinion? I don't think (unless I skimmed too fast) that Vlf agrees w/ the opinion, but why can't Kira have it, as much as one disagrees w/ it? Certainly folks can have opinions & have the having of them defended even if they are deemed offensive by some? Of course. I see no cries for censorship, banning, post removals, etc. I think my post was pretty clear, wasn't it? What I found unbelievable was that VL was defending the opinion that MJ had a greater affect on civil rights than MLK? I figured she was confused about the nature of the controversy in this thread. Now you're saying that she's simply defending the right for Kira to have that opinion. And I'll repeat what others have said. Who said she didn't have that right? Likewise, my "slight offense" is also a personal opinion (which I qualified that paragraph with, "and this is my personal opinion"). Anyone can challenge me on why I feel "slightly" offended by that statement. I welcome it. I don't buy that folks here would really want to hear why a person thought that way. M'bad if I'm wrong. I did. "I used my Obama tax cut to buy tea bags for the protest against increased taxes." By KarenT. (won Huffington Post caption contest for captioning photo of a tea party protester) Last Edited By: heatmiserfl Jul 4, 2009 2:14 PM. Edited 2 times.
desicrowefan	re	#203	[-]
Posts: 1693 (Jul 4, 2009 2:16 PM) Pro-Peace Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't believe anyone has the right to tell anyone else their opinion is wrong based on their race. That was from SJ's post a few comments back. As for Vlf's post, well, that was my opinion. I guess I'm not as shocked that someone would defend an opinion and I don't think that means the person defending believes the opinion as well (but I could be wrong, that's for Vlf to comment on if she wants). And I don't think I've said anything that would suggest no one should feel offended or what not. I think I've been able to comprehend all the posts, I've just had my own tangent thoughts based on mashing them all together. Last Edited By: desicrowefan Jul 4, 2009 2:20 PM. Edited 1 times.
Kira Scurro		#204	[-]
Posts: 4358 (Jul 4, 2009 2:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	heat, those things may all be timelined in the official histories, but people on the street were feeling these things long before and after they were documented by civil demonstrations and laws. it took until the 60's for the "40 years of struggle" and the civil rights act to have an affect on the fortunes of black people. motown and, most famously at that time, michael jackson were visual and economic documentation of that progress. until then, besides the fact that racism wasn't as overt, black people didn't have much proof that all of that struggling had worked. mlk was about the strife. michael was about the success. both contributed in bringing black people into mainstream society. oh, and once again, since no one seems to want to get it right...i said did as much for, not more than. imagine may have come after robt kennedy, but many, many more people will remember imagine as a proclamation of peace, before they remember the politician who fostered it. for that matter the hippy movement did more for peace than any politician and imagine was just part of that. the beatles heralded the hippy movement. john's song will always feel as if it's been with us as long as the peace movement. they are all part of the same, regardless of dates. the feelings were in the air thru that whole 10 year period. as was the ability for the white society to embrace very talented black musicians in the 60's. mlk fought for that comprehension (softening them up, so to speak) and our music, michael's music particularly, gave them the emotional impetus. sorry it doesn't fit your historical timeline, but that's exactly how it felt at the time, in the place, amongst the people. were you there? either place? in the civil rights movement or the peace movement? or were you reading about it?
Hebea		#205	[-]
Posts: 3436 (Jul 4, 2009 3:15 PM) Frequently Perched Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would be more inclined to "concede" to someones "intuitive knowledge" if I didn't already know (from reading your posts)that I would be called a bigot for not agreeing with their position on the godlike qualities of a ...pop star. I recently ran into an old friend of mine and told her what you(Kira)were saying about MJ. That "he did as much for civil rights as martin luther king". She looked at me like I was insane and said..."well sure he did....right up till he went and colored himself WHITE then took up with WHITE women and had himself a mess of WHITE kids." She said whatever went before was ruined by that and what he did to those "poor kids in his crazy house". She also thought the whole tribute thing was wrong and then made a joke that his life was being...."white washed". BTW...she was a teenager in Alabama in the 60's. Going to call her a bigot? Or try the old you weren't THERE so ya don't get to have an opinion?? MJ had great talent but -----IMO------- his many...many problems overshadowed it long ago. ---This Space For Rent---
8bestfriends		#206	[-]
Posts: 7240 (Jul 4, 2009 3:28 PM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	desicrowefan wrote: Well, sometimes folks get too busy to keep up w/ various online things Thanks, Desi... I didn't know that. I even tried to post on my forums both times I've been hospitalized this year. I just didn't want Evany to think that Vlf was fibbing, since she (Vlf) is not posting on that board at present. And I added that I didn't know why so Evany wouldn't think there had been some big melt down when she wasn't around.
desicrowefan	re	#207	[-]
Posts: 1694 (Jul 4, 2009 3:38 PM) Pro-Peace Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I hope you are ok now 8b, and I meant no offense by my comment. I was speaking more from my own experience, not getting a chance to check in, and then, before you know it, its been weeks and you just don't get around to it. I guess a better way of putting it would be priority, even the busiest of folks will find a chance to post if they are so inclined.
Kira Scurro		#208	[-]
Posts: 4359 (Jul 4, 2009 4:05 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	hebea, i want you to show me where i said anyone was a bigot for disagreeing with my opinion. in fact, all of my posts have been in defense of my position. i said they could not possibly know what i was talking about because they were not black. how does that translate into calling someone a bigot? someone said that before too, and i was amazed. i have, in fact, been careful not to do the immature thing and call anyone any names. as jules so maturely did to me. (oh, except calling evany clueless, which still goes. but that's not a name, that's a description) do please show me, my dear, and stop basing your posts on what other people have (wrongly) said.
Hebea		#209	[-]
Posts: 3437 (Jul 4, 2009 4:58 PM) Frequently Perched Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Don't hold your breathe waiting for that. You can be as passive aggressive as ya want but your meaning is LOUD and CLEAR. Obviously I'm not the only one who got it. As for you saying you aren't being immature...BS and LOL. ---This Space For Rent---
Im Just Jules		#210	[-]
Posts: 4438 (Jul 4, 2009 6:16 PM) Bad Ass Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So when you referred to Thal's lily white feet, you were just clarifying the color of her feet in case anyone was confused. Is that it? I think you are a bigot, and that is based on years of reading your posts, and I said so.
Kira Scurro		#211	[-]
Posts: 4360 (Jul 4, 2009 7:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ok, fine, you think i'm a bigot. it's not like i would take the opinion of women who always have a racial bone to pick as worthy to decide what i am in that area. one of the reasons i come back here to post is, if i want to get a bead on the real racial tension in this country, the people who hide behind their suposed liberation, i know i can find it alive and healthy right here. i mean look at yourselves. you've jumped all over a black person because as a black person they dared to disagree with your idea about things that happened to black people. As a black person i can't have an opinion of who our civil rights leaders were because white society says differently. do you see how patently ridiculous you are? the last time i had one of these conversations here it was about oprah and most of the conversation was about how much you hated her and what a worthless bitch she was. (that's were all these phony remembrances of maids and lily white feet come from) the funny thing is that while some of you are so adamant about certain situations with black people, everywhere else but on this board everyone feels just the opposite of you. the worldwide clamor going on right now proves my point about mj for many people, black and white. oprah is one of the most successful and beloved black women in this country, except by certain people here. i do think there is racism going on here. as intellectual and lofty as you may try to be. i always fight with my black friends about the racial divide being over and done. it only takes me coming back here to see they're probably right and i'm probably wrong. if you must ask what our convo about the civil rights leaders has to do with racism, it's because you don't respect black people enough to believe that they may see and believe things differently than you do. your way or the highway. if a black person can't say who was important to our race in civil rights, who can? i know you don't like me, but that doesn't faze me. i think it's probably because i'm an uppity nigga. in your neck of the woods that's the kiss of death...by hanging.
Hebea		#212	[-]
Posts: 3438 (Jul 4, 2009 8:36 PM) Frequently Perched Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Your race has absolutely nothing to do with why I disagree with you. I disagree with you because I don't think the sun has ever shined out Micheal Jacksons ass. YOU brought race into it and tried to beat us over the head with it. We have a right to our opinion no matter what race...greed or religion. PERIOD. We didn't "jump all over" you cuz of your race...I know you WANT to think that very badly because you have a GIGANTIC CHIP on your shoulder. But you're so wrong....and that is so sad. BTW...speaking of hanging...I've been spending a lot of time with family lately and you reminded me of something about my grandfather on my mothers side. He was nearly killed trying to save a man from being lynched by the clan and my mom remembers to this day the cross that was left burning in the yard. ---This Space For Rent---
Nysha2		#213	[-]
Posts: 1330 (Jul 4, 2009 9:02 PM) Irrationally Afraid Of Penguins Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Kira, nobody here is disagreeing with you because you're black. It's just that some of us don't believe that Michael Jackson was an innocent saint or one of the great unsung heroes of the Civil Rights era. You're the only one call people names & calling people racist if they disagree with you.
lindylulu		#214	[-]
Posts: 8401 (Jul 4, 2009 9:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wow, Hebea, those were scary times. Was that by chance in the 1920s? Found this about MJ's vitiligo. There are pictures, not pretty at all. The trim and shine of his military-like wardrobe, and the gloves and hats, drew attention away from Michael's skin condition. http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/vitiligo-photos-michael-jackson/
Hebea		#215	[-]
Posts: 3439 (Jul 4, 2009 9:44 PM) Frequently Perched Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Lindy...It had to be in the 1930's for my mom to be old enough to remember it. She was born in 1927. ---This Space For Rent---
desicrowefan	re	#216	[-]
Posts: 1695 (Jul 4, 2009 10:02 PM) Pro-Peace Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't know about the rest of ya'lls, but I'm gonna start with the (wo)man in the mirror, to, you know, heal the world, make it a better place...
Kira Scurro		#217	[-]
Posts: 4361 (Jul 4, 2009 10:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	wow! you're right, lindy. it's true! i'd never seen any proof of it, and i've always wanted, too. those pics are gonna make a whole lot of people feel a lot better. i'm sending them all the mj fans on my email list. you don't know how good it feels to finally see that. it's one thing to see it on others, but another altogether to see it on michael. thank you soooo much! nysha, the point is not that you're disagreeing because i'm black, it's that you can't respect a black person's opinion about something that involves their own race. it's like we don't have the sense to know how we've been affected. when a black person says something like this about their own black hero, you show little respect when you badger them about it. hebea, please take note. i brought race into it cause i couldn't believe a group of white women were telling me who i could think was a civil rights leader. i think, as a black person, i could speak on this legitimately to people who are not black. also hebea, whether you think the sun has ever shown out of michael jackson's ass or not, he's dead, a lot of people are very sad about it, and if you had any couth at all you'd at least let them do their mourning without slandering the dead. we all know everyone in the world didn't love michael jackson, and choose to believe the very worst about him. is it absolutely necessary to try to be as nasty as possible now that he's dead?
lindylulu		#218	[-]
Posts: 8402 (Jul 4, 2009 10:23 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think the whole black vs. white thing is a bunch of crap. I've known people who thought they had music/dance/art/sports/science/math/younameit skills of all skin colors, and I've seen stars, average performers and wannabes in all disciplines and in all colors. It's all quite simple - we are all just trying to improve our place in line and we form perceptions about who is in front of us and who is behind us. But it's just our perception, it doesn't mean anything really. Michael Jackson was just another human being with some time to kill in this life.
nosyone		#219	[-]
Posts: 6389 (Jul 4, 2009 10:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	eh...on a discussion board people are going to discuss topics. Clearly the premise that Michael Jackson has done as much for civil rights as MLK is one that will have those who agree and those who disagree....it's a thought provoking opinion, not a universally accepted fact. Disagreeing and stating why is not the same thing as telling someone they can't have that opinion....it's discussing...arguing...whatever you want to call it (granted...repeating your opinion over and over will usually have the opposite effect and actually make the person you're debating become more firmly entrenched in their position...funny how that works!). Everyone can't be lumped into the category of either a Michael Jackson lover or hater, either. He was a controversial person who had some negative baggage associated with him, in addition to the good he did. It's possible that people can have mixed feelings about him or have objective feelings that are not all hero worship or all "hate that sicko". It's unrealistic to think that everyone will just forget about the negative because he's passed away (you know, the Ronald Reagan syndrome...the man gets closer to sainthood with every year added to his passing). Finally, I personally think it's good for people of all races to take an interest, have an opinion, and discuss the Civil Rights movement and what it meant to our country. We can all continue to learn from each other if we listen and don't discount opinions based on the other person's race. Now....I feel like singing Kum Ba Yah! A day without laughter is a day wasted. ~ Charlie Chaplin
8bestfriends		#220	[-]
Posts: 7241 (Jul 4, 2009 11:31 PM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Or singing Kum Ba Yah while having a .