Michael Jackson & Farrah Fawcett are dead

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
Kira Scurro		#181	[-]
Posts: 4353 (Jul 3, 2009 10:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	yep, hando, i loved it, too. thank you, vf. i don't know why i even bother to try to get a group of white women like these to see where i'm coming from. my friends, most of my life, have all been white due to my working in the film business, so i definitely know the difference between enlightened whites and ones who are not. the board seems to have a confluence of the latter. it reminds me of a white boyfriend i had once who, owing to the world as it is today, could not understand why i ever saw the least bit of prejudice anywhere, or why i'd get upset about certain ethnic slanders. he could not see the world thru my eyes, no matter how hard he tried, and he didn't try very hard. well, that didn't last long. i couldn't deal with his lack of empathy. which is, btw, one of the most important personality characteristics that makes us human. i discern a distinct lack of it from so many here. ladies, cackle on. it makes me feel good to know there are at least a few here that understand. that's all i need. new ideas and progressive thinking has always been in the minority. why i should think otherwise, or even try to convince people otherwise, is my own shortcoming. No one who was normal ever made history ~ James Ray
vlferrantello		#182	[-]
Posts: 1103 (Jul 3, 2009 11:20 PM) Member of the Board Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Evany2 wrote: Vl, nice of you to drop by to tell me how much I don't know. The problem is that if you had properly read the thread, you would know that I specifically said that you can't lock in the transfer of guardianship of you children in your will so I'm not clear about your demand that I tell supply you with some sort of credential for saying that when, you do claim authority in the area, and you are saying exactly the same thing that I was. Secondly, the civil rights discussion isn't about what Kira may say about her personal life nor is it about whether Michael Jackson played a role in black history, it is about whether or not Michael Jackson was as important to civil rights in the US as Martin Luther King. . I do not have to be black, or American or have lived through segregation to be able to challenge that claim any more than I have to be a Jew, or have lived in Nazi Germany to tell a Holocaust denier that they they are inventing history; or to be a doctor, or even a scientist, to challenge a claim that smoking does not cause lung cancer etc., etc. And, if learning from books and other sources is not valuable then we'd still be living in caves. You also seem to have assumed all sorts of things about my personal life that you don't have a clue about. I certainly never told you any of those things about me that you seem to hold as fact, nor have I ever said anything even remotely similar on any board on which I've ever posted. I don't have a clue where you get all that from but assume it's from other posters on some private board you are posting on who also claim to know all sorts of things about me that they don't. (edited to add that I did tell you, and everyone else for that matter that I'm Canadian and that isn't what I was referring to.) Anyway, my understanding is that this is a discussion board and no one has to claim some sort of credential to state their opinion. I also find it fascinating, that there was a lot of comment from posters who seem to have the same opinion as I do and you don't seem to have any demand that they put forward their credentials. If you want to raise some legitimate source that you want to quote to challenge my views, then I welcome that because I'm here for the discussion but please, when you're quoting your authority, I'd appreciate it if you were actually responding to things I said. You might find that you have less to disagree with me about than you think. ETA: Sorry, but I forgot to add that if your comments about quoting tabs is directed at me, you are also mistaken on that point. I haven't quoted a single source that was even remotely a tab. The only tab stories I've read on any of this are the ones posted here that I've read because a poster had suggested that we do so. If you think that only the tabs think that there are very serious issues with Jackson's attitudes and his behaviour, that isn't the case at all. These issues were all covered in great detail by the legitimate news media. Evany....I did read the thread...and yes your comment was about MJ being as important as MLK.....considering you did not experience any of the events which you quote so forcefully I can't quite understand why you would attack an Americans personal choice for their hero....excuse me, but why should you continue to berate someone over their personal choice?....now, if you had been in the US, had some connection to the events discussed, then perhaps you could enlighten us with those details because you could then bring a perspective to the discussion....as that is not the case why would you continue to berate someone about this issue?....why should you care so very very much as you apparently do? My post referencing your Canadian citizenship has nothing to do with anyone else on this board who might be Canadians....it has to do with YOUR posts about a very specific American issue that some have experienced first hand and denouncing someones thought who HAS experienced it first hand...I would never presume to make such posts attacking your choice of a Canadian hero.....nor would I argue with you over Canadian law.... My reference about the tabloids was not directed at you..... my comments that were directed at you specifically stated your name in the paragraph and not others as you were the one who continued to post denigrating an individuals personal opinion and personal experiences....even as they attempted to just stop the discussion you kept coming back over and over. honey, your paranoia is showing.....I do not post on any single private board..... We make a living by what we get, We make a life by what we give. - Sir Winston Churchill
Nysha2		#183	[-]
Posts: 1327 (Jul 3, 2009 11:20 PM) Irrationally Afraid Of Penguins Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Disagreeing with you that MJ did as much or more than MLK for civil rights does not make me unenlightened. Neither does believing that MJ was a pedophile. As for the other white women on this board, I live in rural Idaho and I know from unenlightened. This ladies don't even come close to half the people living in my little town.
SweetJulls		#184	[-]
Posts: 3739 (Jul 3, 2009 11:22 PM) Perch Pro Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Frankly kira, as I said you rained this shitstorm down on yourself so don't be so quick to congratulate yourself on your ability to rise above. You've never had it in this thread. What you also don't know a thing about is walking a mile in the shoes of a white woman, but you sure do have a Phd in reverse bigotry towards them. It seems to be the one honest thing you present on this board, as in the years I've been around these parts it's the one guarantee we get from you - that sooner or later you'll always make it all about you, and all about race. Same old, same old. A progressive idea would be for you to learn how to be a human being first, before anything else. Maybe give that a try before you start moralizing from your pulpit...it's a bit shaky. "If the Republicans will stop telling lies about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them." ~ Adlai Stevenson
Kira Scurro		#185	[-]
Posts: 4354 (Jul 4, 2009 12:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Frankly kira, as I said you rained this shitstorm down on yourself so don't be so quick to congratulate yourself on your ability to rise above. You've never had it in this thread. i stated my opinion and then, necessarily, went about defending it. since it was obvious that i needed to defend a comment made by a black woman about black people to a bunch of white women who know about it than i do. but, you know what? vl is defending me far better than i am myself (i tend to get emotional...and personal), so i'll just let what's happening in the world right now, at this very minute, illuminate how i (and a whole lotta other people) feel about my hero. ( vl) Jackson spectacle likely a world event updated 12:00 p.m. EDT, Fri July 3, 2009 By Todd Leopold (CNN) -- Will Michael Jackson stop the world? Thousands are expected to swamp Los Angeles, California, to mourn him Tuesday at the Staples Center, and the accompanying media crush will be enormous. The tribute to the King of Pop at Harlem's Apollo Theater earlier this week drew coverage from all over the world, along with a public turnout in the thousands. Given the feverish interest in all things Jackson, the Los Angeles memorial could be one of the most-viewed events of all time. "This will obviously be a huge media event, and with Web streams of the funeral, it may be impossible to say for sure how many people watched once all is said and done, because there's still no comprehensive way to measure Web viewing," said Toni Fitzgerald, of Media Life, in an e-mail interview. A handful of events have earned the kind of worldwide coverage to put the world on pause, if only for a moment. The 1963 assassination of John F. Kennedy "had the nation locked in a trance for two or three days," recalled TV critic Ed Bark of UncleBarky.com. The world audience for the Apollo 11 moon landing has been estimated in the hundreds of millions. The BBC estimated 2.5 billion people watched the 1997 funeral of Princess Diana. Watch Jermaine Jackson talk about his brother's legacy » Don't Miss Complete Michael Jackson coverage Read Michael Jackson's will (pdf) Jacksons rely on strength of family The numbers are easily exaggerated -- nobody knows how many people are watching in groups or in public places -- and the Web has complicated matters further. But in a multichannel, satellite TV, computer-and-cell phone world, the Jackson memorial could have an audience in the hundreds of millions. It was first believed the event would take place at Jackson's Neverland Ranch. But the family announced Thursday that it will hold a private ceremony Tuesday, and then a massive public memorial service at the Staples Center. Fans must register for 11,000 tickets that organizers will give out for the latter event. Watch a tour of Neverland » "You have to go back to the Beatles, the death of John Lennon perhaps, and the death of Elvis Presley to find a comparable figure in, not just pop music, but pop culture," said Entertainment Weekly critic-at-large Ken Tucker. (EW, like CNN, is a unit of Time Warner.) "And Jackson so self-consciously turned himself into not just an American pop icon but a global pop icon. I think this does have worldwide implications and interest." See how interest in Jackson's music has skyrocketed » The circumstances of Jackson's death have led to comparisons with Presley's in 1977, but in terms of coverage, the two can't compare. The news wasn't even the top story on CBS' "Evening News," Bark recalled, and there certainly wasn't wall-to-wall nationwide live coverage of his funeral. A public viewing drew about 30,000 fans; the funeral, two days after his death, was held in Graceland's living room. But Bark said there are parallels, at least in terms of coverage, with the Kennedy assassination. "These days it's so much harder to get a bulk audience on any given venue the way the [broadcast networks] did back then, but still the enormity [of the event] -- it's the syndicated tabloid shows ... and TMZ and all the cable networks devoting lots of attention to it, [and] the broadcast networks can't seem to do enough specials in prime time," said Bark. "I do think it's comparative but in a very different way." Officially, the sorts of events that have attracted the largest mass audiences have been scheduled entertainment or sports programs. Sixty percent of America watched the 1983 "MASH" finale; more than half watched the 1980 "Who Shot J.R." episode of "Dallas" and the 1977 "Roots" conclusion. The Beatles' first appearance on "The Ed Sullivan Show" in 1964 drew about 45 percent of the country. The Super Bowl is routinely the year's most watched program, with audiences north of 80 million -- about 40 percent of U.S. television households. Although interest in Jackson has been high, the number of viewing choices (and, perhaps, the traditional decline in summer viewing) has kept the ratings for individual Jackson-oriented shows down. "Jackson's death came up in just about every conversation I had from Thursday to Sunday, and yet only 5 million people tuned in to some of those broadcast specials," Media Life magazine's Fitzgerald observed. Still, the public memorial service might be different. "I expect you'll see very big tune-ins on the cable news networks and on BET, if they cover it; they had huge numbers for their BET Awards focused on Jackson over the weekend," Fitzgerald said. The BET Awards was watched by 10.7 million, the most ever for a cable awards show. "With the celebrity factor thrown into the funeral, who'll be there, who'll talk, I would guess tens of millions in the U.S. will watch it on TV," she said. It is certain is that the news media will be there in force. "I guess we're all going to wait and see what the spectacle is," Bark said. "There may be no precedent for this." E-mail to a friend All About* Michael Jackson Last Edited By: Kira Scurro Jul 4, 2009 12:33 AM. Edited 1 times.
Evany2		#186	[-]
Posts: 1482 (Jul 4, 2009 12:27 AM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	my comments that were directed at you specifically stated your name in the paragraph and not others as you were the one who continued to post denigrating an individuals personal opinion and personal experiences....even as they attempted to just stop the discussion you kept coming back over and over. Vl, you keep claiming to have read the thread but I'm afraid you didn't do it very well. The thread is now over 180 posts long. In post number 128, some 50 plus posts ago, I told Kira that I wasn't going to address her again, and I haven't. That was three and a half days ago and I haven't mentioned Kira, MLK or the civil rights movement since that time. After I bowed out of that part of the discussion, there were at least five other posters who said, some repeatedly and quite heatedly, that they strongly disagreed with Kira's view that MJ was more important than MLK in the civil rights movement and/or have taken her on about her attitude. Some of it's been pretty personal. So, maybe you're a bit confused about me keeping the discussion going when everyone else had bowed out. Anyway, you come along, 50 posts and 31/2 days later. You either didn't read or decided to ignore all the other posts in between, and start harping on me that I that I have no right to tell Kira that I disagree with her views. Your main reason for me not having this right seems to have something to do with the fact that I'm Canadian. Hmmm? Okay. In addition, you go to some lengths to tell me that something that I supposedly said about wills was wrong. You then tell me how I was wrong but in fact, what I said was exactly what you were saying. You also seem to think this discussion has something to do with me attacking "an Americans personal choice for their hero..." The discussion had nothing to do with Kira's personal choice of hero and had everything to do with her claim that it was fact that MJ was more important to the civil rights movement than MLK. She didn't state a personal choice of hero, she stated her view as an historical fact and that is what I was disagreeing with and what the other folks who have been involved in this discussion have disagreed with. It was Kira who decided we had no right to those views because we were white women, and particularly bigoted white women if we didn't agree with her. She's still on about that. As you can see, just from the posts on this page, that seems to be a fairly disturbing accusation to a number of posters. Kira can tell us that we have no right to disagree with her because we're white. You can tell me that I have no right to disagree with her because I'm both white and Canadian. The problem is, that isn't what this board is about. It's a discussion board. Other folks have already pointed that out several times to Kira and I'm now pointing it out to you. honey, your paranoia is showing.....I do not post on any single private board..... Ummm, actually you do vl. You post on a private board that I post on.
Im Just Jules		#187	[-]
Posts: 4435 (Jul 4, 2009 6:52 AM) Bad Ass Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't think that because someone doesn't live in the US, they can't disagree, or agree, with the notion that MJ was as significant in the civil rights' movement as MLK Jr. Am I not allowed to discuss Churchill's role in WWII because 1. I wasn't alive and 2. I do not live in the U.K.?? honey, your paranoia is showing.....I do not post on any single private board..... Ummm, actually you do vl. You post on a private board that I post on. I don't know who is telling the truth, but this is starting to crack me up.
8bestfriends		#188	[-]
Posts: 7236 (Jul 4, 2009 7:08 AM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Evany2 wrote You post on a private board that I post on. If you mean the same one I post on too, Vl doesn't post there anymore.
Evany2		#189	[-]
Posts: 1483 (Jul 4, 2009 7:28 AM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If you mean the same one I post on too, Vl doesn't post there anymore. Oh sorry then but she made no announcement that I saw about leaving and she's still listed as an active member so I guess I didn't notice. But she did post there until relatively recently and she posted there for several years.
8bestfriends		#190	[-]
Posts: 7237 (Jul 4, 2009 7:35 AM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Her last post there was April 6th. I have no idea why she quit posting.
heatmiserfl		#191	[-]
Posts: 3323 (Jul 4, 2009 9:47 AM) Lurker - F*CK YEAH! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I can't believe VL has decided to defend Kira's opinion that MJ did more for civil rights than MLK? That's what the big uproar was, ya know, VL? Maybe you didn't know why this thread turned controversial. Then she adds more to the mix by appearing to dispute that Ray Charles did smack. WTF? Kira has a tendancy to make these outrageous statements and then is surprised that no one remotely agrees with her. No one is doubting Kira's personal experience as a Black woman. People are questioning Kira's perspective on a crucial point in American history. You can live during that time and experience the discrimination and not have a clue about the civil rights movement and what it took to allow people like Michael Jackson to thrive. People died, fighting for their rights, 20 yrs before Jackson came on the scene. I don't have to be Black to appreciate that. I just have to be a human being (as others, here, have already stated). I personally think that Kira has allowed her strong visceral feelings to cloud her judgment. She thinks that just because people like Elvis and MJ were the first to make people feel the 'tribal beat' (IMO, very debatable - hello!, swing, bebop), then that would make white people somehow magically accept Blacks. There is no basis for this except in Kira's own mind. The biggest racists you could ever meet worship the ghost of Elvis. Furthermore, the same racists would see MJ when he was young and quip "Look at the little colored boy. He's so cute. Too bad they grow up. Har! Har!" The 'tribal beat' is exactly what racists didn't like about Black music (duh!). The 'tribal beat' turned you away from Jesus and into fornication, drugs, crime and loss of social order. Hell, it's like saying that John Lennon did more for the peace movement than Robert Kennedy. Quite frankly, and this is my personally opinion only, Kira's statement slightly offended me. Every time I watch MLK, I get that lump in my throat and I'm not all that emotional. He inspires me to be a better person. MJ's music is simply snappy tunes that make me want to dance. There's no stinkin' comparison. "I used my Obama tax cut to buy tea bags for the protest against increased taxes." By KarenT. (won Huffington Post caption contest for captioning photo of a tea party protester)
Evany2		#192	[-]
Posts: 1484 (Jul 4, 2009 10:56 AM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hell, it's like saying that John Lennon did more for the peace movement than Robert Kennedy. Whaaaaaat? You mean to say you think Kennedy did more ? (Just kidding.) But, you know Heat, a very good friend of mine, an American BTW, and I got into a major discussion about Robert Kennedy in a cafe here in Toronto last winter. She doesn't think much of RFK (she has a huge issue with him about the McCarthy hearings) and I disagree. The tables in the cafe were quite close together and there was a young American tourist couple at the next table. The guy was a law student in Connecticutt and they got into the discussion. Soon there was a big debate going on that most of the folks in the cafe were taking part in. Some folks were getting really passionate. It was great, really intellectually stimulating. I love a good discussion.
Kira Scurro		#193	[-]
Posts: 4356 (Jul 4, 2009 11:11 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	oh, this is really sooo stupid, but as long as people continue to twist or totally misunderstand my words, i suppose i'll have to continue to try to bring clarity. i didn't say more than, i said as much as. swing, bebop had no tribal beat. rock did. it's the bass beat. and you know what? kids are still singing and loving "imagine" who probably don't even know who robert kennedy is. so i just might say john lennon did. music is visceral. people "feel" it, in case you didn't know (which i think maybe you didn't), so they remember the people who make them "feel" things long after the political figures in the history books who usually get the total credit. plus, when they "feel" it, the emotion lasts far longer than when someone tells them intellectually how to act. people who don't understand that seem singularly emotionless to me. Happy Fourth of July, everyone! Last Edited By: Kira Scurro Jul 4, 2009 11:14 AM. Edited 1 times.
desicrowefan	re	#194	[-]
Posts: 1690 (Jul 4, 2009 11:18 AM) Pro-Peace Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, sometimes folks get too busy to keep up w/ various online things - I've left boards & forums w/o making an annoucement. Not because I meant to be rude, but I didn't want to make a big deal of 'tada, I'm leaving'. Anywho, now I'm gonna meddle in stuff I was trying to stay out of and say I don't see why its such a deal that Vlf is defending Kira having an opinion? I don't think (unless I skimmed too fast) that Vlf agrees w/ the opinion, but why can't Kira have it, as much as one disagrees w/ it? Certainly folks can have opinions & have the having of them defended even if they are deemed offensive by some? I don't like some of the articles being posted, and I don't get why some have to keep saying the same thing, but I figure, I'm choosing to read it, and people can post all the live long day even if it isn't something different. I haven't been as active around here for a while, but I do read, and this thread is the first time in a while where folks are disagreeing. Rather than the typical 'here's an issue' and everyone is having similar 'boo hiss' or 'yaay' opinions. Last Edited By: desicrowefan Jul 4, 2009 11:25 AM. Edited 1 times.
Evany2		#195	[-]
Posts: 1485 (Jul 4, 2009 11:42 AM) Perch Eminence Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Certainly folks can have opinions & have the having of them defended even if they are deemed offensive by some? Desi, I totally agree. People certainly are entitled to their opinions and the only people on this thread who ever questioned people's right to them are Kira and VL. Kira has said repeatedly on this thread that white people (which means almost everyone else here) aren't entitled to their opinions on the civil rights movement unless they agree with her, and in my case, both Kira and VL have questioned my right to have an opinion on the issue because I'm not an American. I like discussions and people disagreeing. I find it interesting and I like to debate issues. When people start up with that nonsense, "that you don't have a right to disagree ......" it is starts all kind of dysfunction on a thread, just like on this one.
lurker0317		#196	[-]
Posts: 16181 (Jul 4, 2009 12:10 PM) chief cook&bottle-washer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I like discussions and people disagreeing. I find it interesting and I like to debate issues. When people start up with that nonsense, "that you don't have a right to disagree ......" it is starts all kind of dysfunction on a thread, just like on this one. Absolutely... it's when we debate and disagree that we learn from others. And the more POVs you get, from the "inside" and the "outside" of various groups, you get a more complete picture of an issue. When you limit who is "allowed" to have an opinion, you get into a really murky moral position. Vive la difference! Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it. Andre Gide
desicrowefan	re	#197	[-]
Posts: 1691 (Jul 4, 2009 1:03 PM) Pro-Peace Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well...I didn't quite see it that way (this thread), but I do think everyone has a right to an opinion - how qualified it may be, that's another can of worms. This board is hardly about huge differences in opinion (imo), so I suppose the "skirmish" on this thread would stand out.
SweetJulls		#198	[-]
Posts: 3742 (Jul 4, 2009 1:15 PM) Perch Pro Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I do think everyone has a right to an opinion, however I don't believe anyone has the right to tell anyone else their opinion is wrong based on their race. If that's the only basis for the disagreement, then you have a weak argument to begin with - and that's my opinion. By all means have a debate about the importance of individuals to the civil rights movement - that would be a welcome conversation. But telling the majority of this board that she already knows to be white that they have zero say on both her opinion and the civil rights movement in general based on the colour of our skin and nothing more? Nope, sorry. That's where the skirmish began and I disagree with that position vehemently. It's an off the cuff flip remark that has no basis in fact and even less in theory, and it's sole design was to offend people. For what reason, only she knows. "If the Republicans will stop telling lies about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them." ~ Adlai Stevenson
desicrowefan	re	#199	[-]
Posts: 1692 (Jul 4, 2009 1:23 PM) Pro-Peace Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd say that folks have a 'right' to say whatever they want, even 'you are wrong because you are white/black/purple/green' (as long as it doesn't violate yuku board standards, I suppose). And in return, folks have a right to say that's completely crazy. eta: I might be an odd duck w/ that opinion because I routinely have folks tell me I'm not qualified to have certain thoughts/opinions based on my background. Even if nothing had been mentioned about anyone's race, I highly doubt it would have been welcome conversation to have someone say 'MJ did more for civil rights than MLK' - that opinion is doomed from the get-go here. I don't buy that folks here would really want to hear why a person thought that way. M'bad if I'm wrong.
lindylulu		#200	[-]
Posts: 8396 (Jul 4, 2009 1:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It's not easy being green. Trying to spend the day green, it takes a toll on one's soul...just ask Kermit.